All of the figures from both companies were developed in 24 inch test barrels. How does the 280 AI do with 180 grain bullets compared to the 7mm SAUM? I have a variety of options on this, as I am planning to do this on a DTA, for which I have both .535 and .585 bolts, and the DTA mags are pretty generous in regard to OAL. It slightly exceeds the ballistic performance of the short-action 7mm SAUM on the right. More than 1,900 ft-lbs of energy at 700 yards. But if your wanting the long action anyway, I'd go with the 280ai. make ideal whitetail and mule deer takers with 140-to 160-grain bullets. By 1,000 yards the PRC has nearly a 2-foot drop advantage and 14-inch windage advantage. Here, the hardness is nearly twice that of around the neck. I can't tell you how many cartridge choices I've settled on, only to change my mind again and again. Like I said, I'm biased for the 7RM. But if you are only going to shoot the 160's you may be ok with SAAMI spec'd chamber. For Connaught we moved to 7mm SAUMs and in preparation of going to that FCWC I got . I wish there was more 7SAUM options, I feel there's a gap in the market. Im shooting a 7 stw 1 in 8 twist ( ballistic twin to 28 nosler ) 190's at 3005 fps, and the 195's at 2985 fps both with under .5 moa accuracy. Many find them, like the 280ai, to be a great compromise between ballistics and recoil. I would go 7 LRM if it wasn't for the Hornady brass . I would expect the 300 PRC to mirror the performance. Definitely go 26" on the barrel. Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. I made the same decision not long ago and went 7mm RM, although barrel life was a consideration for me, which it probably wouldn't be on a strictly hunting rig. This is a long-range dream cartridge for sure. Mag. Mag. No more than 7-pounds finished and field ready. When I add this up, I default to the 7mm Rem. Absolutely nothing special or difficult about reloading belted cases. $120.95. I have hunted with a 7mm Rem Mag and a 7mmSTW. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. might not sound like a big deal until you start maneuvering it in and out of cases, trucks, scabbards, and forests. I love my 7 SAUM and would do it again. First, the 7mm Rem Mag and 28 Nosler use larger diameter bullets than the 6.8 Western. 7 RUM Choose an option 6.5 PRC 6.5 SAUM 7 SAUM 7 REM MAG 7 RUM 28 NOSLER 300 WIN MAG 300 NORMA MAG 300 PRC 300 RUM 30 NOSLER 338 LAPUA 338 RUM 338 EDGE 300 WSM 375 RUM 7 REM MAG BRIGHT 338 RUM BRIGHT 30 NOSLER BRIGHT. and if you cant draw any tags, youd got a target rifle to tide you over. You are using an out of date browser. Hper du kan nyte shoppingen din her! Guys report great brass life with belted cases. I wouldn't do either in a 24" , I would definitely go 26" at a minimum. The belt has never been an issue for me. bullet have what it takes for hunting anything short of dangerous game. 6.5 PRC. FWIW, the LRM setup that I have on the way was ordered with 16x-class projectiles in mind. To comply with the new e-Privacy directive, we need to ask for your consent to set the cookies. You must log in or register to reply here. This compromise should account for the slower muzzle velocities many rifles produce with factory loads and safe handloads. IMR 4350 was the most accurate powder tested. SAUM can be found on the . 7RM!! The only advantage I'd see with the SAUM is using a short action. The Nosler Reloading Guide 9 lists a 175-gr. 7mm Rem. $120.95. In order to obtain that performance from a .30 caliber, I would need to jump into the .300 Win. Both are great rounds. Note: A full length article about the 7mm WSM and 7mm Rem. But if you suspect a 26-inch barrel might be a bit unwieldy, waitll you haul around a 28-inch. The first question you have to ask when designing a new cartridge is, "WHY?" The 7LRM (Long Range Magnum) is a non-belted case that has the same overall length as the 7mm Rem Mag with a standard magnum case head. Meanwhile, over in Africa a Scottish commercial ivory hunter named Bell was making the little 7x57mm famous as a BIG big game round by dropping some 800 elephants with it. I wanted an every day backpacking Coues rifle that could do sheep, bears, caribou, goats and the occasional backpacking elk hunt if needed. Worth considering. However, if youre hoping to win a target shooting contest at 600 yards, the 3 inches less wind deflection and 4 inches less drop from the PRC give you a leg up. The 280AI is a great cartridge, as is the plain old 280 Remington. without laser assistance. The 7 PRC should be built on 1:8 or 1:7.5 twist barrels to stabilize all these. This rings home with me. Im in the market to start a new build. Fr pske salg: Opptil 50 % rabatt + Gratis frakt over 499 kr Anyone looking for really good dies call Whiddon and have them made. Typical 140- to 175-grain, .284 slugs are wide enough to resist bending (a problem Bell had with tough, thick elephant bones) yet narrow enough to minimize drag. 280AI vs 7 SAUM: two peas in a pod. They straightened the sidewalls. I'm worried bout the need of a 26" barrel for the Nosler, and hoping to get away with a 24" since I'm trying to run an Ultra 7 with it. I'm currently hunting with a 7rm shooting 168 Berger vlds at 3000 fps. Buy Now. Compared to the ballistics of the new Rem. Clearly the 7mm Rem. Wyoming NR Special increase headed for the Gov's signature, Nutrition/Running/Strength Training/Other Workouts, FORLOH AllClima Softshell and AllClima Stretch Woven Pant Review. I also see the counter that belted cases are reloaded just like non belted and it is a non issue. Nosler AccuBond Long Range. Again, both seen like great options but I want this to be a hunting rig, as I've got a rifle for shooting steel. Running a 7mm like others velocities are really easily to get. Engineers made three modifications that ensured popularity: they shortened the case to fit standard-length actions. 7rm for me. While testing some upgraded M700 Remington rifles at FTW Ranch last summer, I simultaneously test drove the pre-release 7mm PRC from Hornady. Indeed, over the years my 7mms have handled this stuff. The 7mm SAUM is an ideal cartridge for long-range competition and long-range hunting. Trustpilot. If we're talking optimizing performance, a 26" barrel is not optimum for either cartridge - you should instead be looking at 30" - 32" barrels. Amazing bc too for the weight. The 404 Jeffery sired the majority of Nosler's cartridge line, namely the 30 Nosler, 26 Nosler, and 33 Nosler as well as other cartridges like the 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum (SAUM). Nosler shortened the RUM case, gave it a 35-degree shoulder, and shortened the neck to .276. My hunting partner just bought a CA Ridgeline TI in 6.5PRC. JavaScript is disabled. Heres what a trajectory table looks like for the 180-gr. ELD-Match, Noslers 185-gr. 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life. 180-gr. Pros, cons of both and reasons why. Id be set for all North American game plus African plains game right up to 1,800-pound eland. These bullets are super tempting to run at 3200+. Bullet size is another one of the other important differences between the 28 Nosler vs 300 Win Mag. Just 5 inches of drop at 400 yards and 6.8 inches of wind deflection. Links to technical data and drawings for the newly SAAMI accepted Cartridge and Chamber designs not yet included in SAAMI Standards are listed below. The Nosler loads were developed in Remington cases with Remington primers, and chronographed in a 24 inch barrel. Another vote for 7 rem mag. Also note that some guys are reporting pressure issues at speeds other are reporting work with the 28. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Therefore recoil is not a problem with bullets of 140-150grs. Id suggest a similar plan. Great performance, easy to neck a case down and a simple bushing change gets you great dies. It's an extraordinary caliber that has proven itself for decades upon decades, and just in the last few years has hit new strides thanks to the SAAMI standardization of the caliber, because of it's time-tested popularity. For really light and a short action if you reload 7 saum. For reasons that I can't explain (though perhaps have something to do with me eating paint chips as a kid), I have an obsession with 3k FPS muzzle velocity. That's what I would do unless you have to have something much faster. He is having adg make brass for him, its head stamped and the neck diameter and length are correct for his design, will still need to be fire formed. In the past, running 284 Win (reaching back to Raton, 2013), I would have said that (for me at least) a rechamber would be in order for a straight 284 around the 2000 round mark. You want 98.2 grains water capacity behind a seated 175-grain bullet? Genesis 1:1 NRA Benefactor Life, SAF, RMEF, Memberships "Want to stop drunk drivers from killing sober drivers? The 7mm advantage comes from relatively high BC (ballistic coefficient) bullets in popular weights commonly used for hunting horned and antlered game. Short, light barrels just dont do justice to high temperature, high velocity, high pressure, overbore magnum cartridges. And most of the recent data for the rum is also on the weak side. 7mm Rem Short Action Ultra Magnum Load Data. This calls for a light rifle. Once you get some freebore to seat the long, heavy bullets out, it really shines. I have a 6.5 saum that is my go to long range coues rifle and it is my favorite rifle but not my first choice for an elk cartridge. To help you understand the flow of energy, check out the chart-. Now I am waffling between the 6.5x284 Norma and the 300 PRC. RDF, or Bergers 190-gr. Published Nov 25, 2019 7:53 PM EST. ABLR in the 28 Nosler. Furthest down, around the primer pocket, the brass should be firm. I don't feel the need to give up barrel life (it may be a hunting rifle but I still practice with it) for a marginal increase in speed, as well as more powder and more expensive brass. John Whiddons dies are the nicest Ive ever used. Fr pske salg: Opptil 50 % rabatt + Gratis frakt over 499 kr . Sign up with your email address to receive news and updates. Subscribe to OL+ for our best feature stories and photography. Dies, brass etc are way easier to find for the PRC. The 28 Nosler uses .284 diameter bullets while the 300 Win Mag uses larger .308 bullets. HOWEVER, I don't follow the logic of having to use a 26" barrel if you go the Nosler route. Its likely to be as popular in the 21st century as the Rem Mag was in the 20th. Now lets check out the 7mm RUM. Since this rifle will be used sparingly maybe I can afford to go with something a little harder on the barrel. First, notice that kinetic energy remains above the elk killing minimum of 1,500 ft-lbs at 700 yards. This is probably too high for real world hunting, but well use it as a standard here for cartridge-to-cartridge comparison consistency.). 7mm brass is simple to find and the caliber is an absolute hammer on deer/elk. Full comparison of the 28 Nosler and the 7mm rum " Remington Ultra Mag" 2 big 7mm magnums that are very comparable. I neither believe in this minimum nor in shooting elk at 700 yards, but this is impressive performance for a standard-length cartridge nearing its 60th birthday. Ryan Pierce is a gunsmith, Piercison Rifles, and he is the first person I saw that was playing with the extra freebore. Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the revenue of any purchases made. M700 shooting 180-gr. If you're only going to be shooting 160's, I think the regular 7 Rem Mag would definitely be a more economical choice. ammo. I'm pushing the 175 eldx at 3005 fps, with excellent case life (10+ reloads). It had impressed its power upon our troops in Cuba under fire from Spanish Mausers in 1898. Qty: Add to cart. If your just hunting without extended range sessions I'g use this over the 7rem mag. Clear winner. Just have the barrel throated so you can load those big pills way out there, to make room for more powder. Using new brass, like Lapua brass, when reloading allows you complete control over the finished cartridge. | It does have a dark side, though. Pretty sure the can thing is a complete game changer on optimal barrel length. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Nosler Custom Reloading Brass 280 Remington Ackley Improved 40-Degree Nosler Custom Reloading Brass 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Mag Box N N2TRKYS Well-Known Member Joined Full Member. And in the chambers of their rifles. More significant are the chamber dimensions, which are tighter than those of most traditional, 20th century hunting cartridges. Its a criterion 26 barrel. As you might guess, there isnt much trajectory/performance difference between the RUM and the Nosler. and exactly the same claim is made for the 7mm WSM. ADG makes 28 nosler brass for a great option. Another vote for 280ai if building a light weight hunt rig all the horsepower needed close to 7rm but standard action with room for an extra round. Remington and Winchester went to short, fat, unbelted cases for their latest 7mm magnums, the 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum and the Winchester Short Magnum. needed another shot behind the head to kill it. include more options in rifles and ammo, more accessible and less expensive ammo, less recoil, a potentially shorter, handier, lighter rifle, and longer barrel life. I have one on a 26" proof barrel. $81.95. If the muzzle energy is higher, it will leave the bullet with higher energy. Saw some shiney spots, no bolt lift but did open the pocket a little to the point of a few firings at 3120 fps. JavaScript is disabled. This is Not a New Thing. The maximum load for that bullet is 61.5 grains of H4350 powder, which yields a MV of 3133 fps at a chamber pressure of 61,900 psi. With 165gr bullets the 300 has a fair amount of recoil with a 150gr it feels more like a 30/06. You are using an out of date browser. Recoil of a 9# Rem. . Handloaders can take advantage of all these, but most commercial ammunition features 120-grain to 178-grain bullets. Essentially, 7mm PRC rifles will be manufactured with match-grade chambers. Yes, the .28 Nosler wins the ballistic competition with the RUM right on its heels. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. With a 28" I got 2950~2975 with a 195 and 3150 with a 180. The shot prior a half grain less powder had minimal pressure signs. Rich is a good guy to talk to on the phone we bsd a bit the other day. Lots of hiking, backpacking, climbing, shooting to 450 yards, maybe 500 yards. Mag. You can drive 10 mph and get thousands and thousands more miles out of your tires, but wouldnt you rather drive highway speed? I agree mud, but where does the 284 shehane fall compared to the above cartridges? The 28 Nosler is in the 7mm Rifle Ammo family. A barrel shot out for target competition might remain more than accurate enough for big game hunting. .280 AI hands-down. We have killed over a half dozen deer over 850 yards with the 195 berger so i know it performs well on game (never lost a deer with the 195 even with one having poor shot placement). 224 Valkyrie. Abonner p vrt nyhetsbrev og bli den frste som fr vite om kuponger og spesielle kampanjer. Overall cartridge length of the 7mm RUM is 3.6 inches, right there with a .375 H&H Magnum. ADG 300 . Like you said though, it's pretty tough to go wrong. The Nosler Reloading Guide 9 lists a 175-gr. With a 160 grain bullet the Remington figures are 2960 fps and 3112 ft. lbs. It went on to prove itself as a grand all-round big game cartridge, becoming the most popular, most recognized 7mm magnum around the world. Reloder 33, 7mm RUM 3,150 fps from 26 bl. 28 Nosler offers excellent performance but brass is spendy and availability is hit or miss . If you compare Nosler .280 AI brass vs. Nosler 7SAUM brass, you get twice the cases (50) with the .280 AI for only $10 more than what it costs for 25 cases of 7mm SAUM. The 7mm Precision Rifle Cartridge is a long-action centerfire rifle cartridge designed to shoot 180 grain bullets at 2,950 fps. Copyright Ron Spomer Outdoors document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) I am very pleased I am shooting retumbo using adg brass which is excellent brass highly recommend, shooting 165 Gamechanger at 3075, 180 Berger right at 3000. Barrel life will also be lower than the other two. Because the 7mm RM is a familiar benchmark, lets establish some basic performance numbers in an 8 pound rifle with 24-inch barrel spitting a representative spire point, boat tail, 175-grain hunting bullet, B.C. Clearly Hornady wasnt trying to break any speed records with the 7 PRC. 8tw 195 or maybe the new 190 atips. Easily fed from a BDL mag box. Consider that already own a 270 Win with a 22" barrel. My vote would be 7RM as well. The 7mm PRC in center is the same overall length as the 7mm Rem Mag and achieves the same muzzle velocities, but does so in a fatter case with no belt. Additionally you can tune your load so accuracy difference go out the window. My vote would be for the 7 saum. If you go the Nosler route, look into the freebore for the barrel. With a 160 grain bullet the Winchester figures are 2990 fps and 3176 ft. lbs. In older reloading books for the 7 rum is its hauling a$$ compared current data. Buy Now. The 7 SAUM offers better performance than the 300 Win Mag in a package that is almost as small as the 6.5 Creedmoor. Fill this with 88 grains of slow burning Reloder 33 powder and, according to the Nosler Reloading Guide 8, you should get 3,211 fps from a 26-inch barrel. Muzzle energy means the energy of the bullet at the time of leaving the gun. Here are some specifications of interest to those reloading the 7mm WSM cartridge: bullet diameter .284", maximum COL 2.860", maximum case length 2.100". Mag., the 264 Win. Im using Winchester brass, and it's showing no signs of wear after 8 or 9 reloads. That results in performance like this: Whoa grandma! It's often put head-to-head with other popular calibers like the 7mm Rem. $89.95. Mag. The SAUM will be built on a long action. The 175/180 class Bullets sneaking along (1/4 MOA) at 2950-ish give or take, certainly not to par with the newer selections. Creedmoor Sports $ 119.95 . I was looking at a 7-300 win, 7-300NM, and a few others. Trustpilot. Some are claiming as little as 600-round barrel life for RUM, 1,000 rounds for .28 Nosler, 2,000 for Rem. For you guys that have had both with do you prefer. If you go with a hot 7mm, get one with a fairly heavy barrel contour. If youre going to tackle an elk or mule deer with a 180-grain bullet at around 2,900 fps, the 7mm version in that bullet weight will shoot flatter, drift less, and put more energy on target than the .308 version. And the accuracy with both powders was great as well. factory 7mm Rem. Want to do 24-26 barrel. .672., MV 2,900 fps. I have both chambered up on the same rifle, the 28 is about cooked so spun up a 7 MAX and maybe in a month I'll get time to pull the trigger more on it, fire forming and case prep amounts to chamfer, add primer, powder and bullet to ADG 7 MAX brass and pull the trigger. It may not display this or other websites correctly. One of the draws to the 7 SAUM is the availability of high-quality brass through companies like Norma and ADG. You must log in or register to reply here. The best part is that the recoil is super easy compared to a 300. I also kicked around the idea of 7max, but can always go that route later. Trustpilot. Minuteman. Hornadys 7mm PRC with its high B.C. And it will likely penetrate farther because more of its mass rides in the long shank behind its nose. ADG 7mm Rem Ultra Mag Brass. Brass is not going anywhere as a handloaders cartridge. 28 nosler is a great case, barrel burner, but if you're looking for say 3000fps w/ 195 at lower pressure, use H1000 or Retumbo, adg/gunwerks brass, and the brass will last you forever, take care the barrel and it may go 1000 rounds. Mag., 270 Winchester, 30-06 Springfield, and 300 H&H Magnum looked all but washed up. $120.95. Never saw the need for the added horse power of the 7 STW so I sold it and stayed with the 7 mm Rem Mag. They sharpened the shoulder angle. 22 Nosler. Has 260 rounds on it so its fully sped up. at the muzzle. Mag., 7mm RUM, 28 Nosler,) you dont need a 7 PRC. &mm PRC. rick smith. Going to a 28-inch barrel provides more volume for burning those big doses of slow-burning powder, adding 50 to perhaps 100 fps to 26-inch barrel velocities. Sign up with your email address to receive news and updates. The 7 SAUM is a short-action, magnum cartridges similar to the 7 WSM. Or just step up to the 7 SAUM and run 180s if you want more weight. I set my dies to headspace off the shoulder and forget about the belt. Trustpilot. Had same dilemma, went with 7RM because even during the great Obama ammo shortage you could always find 7RM ammo. Most people are getting sub half moa. ELD-Match zeroed for MPBR on a 6-inch target zone. Clearly the 28 Nosler is the flat trajectory King here, but at the expense of more recoil, more powder, and a fairly large, standard-length action to fit the .534 rim/head circumference. It's no surprise then that the 7mm Weatherby held the title "World's Fastest 7mm" until the 28 Nosler appeared. We ain't raisen no yuppy girls! RL-19, H4350, and IMR 4350 are all good choices. Foot of the Big Belt Mountains near Townsend MT. Few, if any, cartridges shoot as flat and hit as hard at distance as the 7mm Weatherby. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Newer calibers tend to fade quickly these days. ADG 28 Nosler. For perspective, this is 75 fps faster than most 175-gr. 28 Nosler brass can be a pain to find, same goes for the ammo. Considering the production by Hornady of 6.5 GAP 4S cases, the next logical step appeared to be ammunition coming off the line in Grand Island, Nebraska. Elk, moose, kudu and similar large . And with RL33 hes getting 3140 fps (pretty easily), using Retumbo (for it's temp stability) drops it about 75 fps. When making your choice, don't factor in component or ammo availability. (Aim for center and bullet will not rise more than 5 inches nor fall more than 5 inches within the MPBR. ADG 30 Nosler Brass. The 28 Nosler is also loaded to a slightly higher pressure than the 300 Win Mag (65,000psi vs 64,000psi). Barrels are like truck tires. Then Remington blew the doors wide open with their new 7mm magnum chambered in their equally new and affordable M700 rifles. JavaScript is disabled. This friction-free bullet jump allows it to break inertia more easily. haha The good part is it's kinda hard to go wrong these days being there are so many great choices. 92 grs. Actually just today finally found a Redding type s die seton stock. Like most of our early magnums, this is based on the belted .375 H&H Magnum case. The structure of the material reveals the hardness. The LRM feeds perfectly, much better than the SAUM. Some of these new cartridges are appealing, I dont think Ill change however. Also, is it worth getting a new rifle in the 280AI when I already have a 270 Win? performance without stepping up to a full magnum length cartridge and rifle action was Noslers goal. Jan 1, 2018 2,001 4,006 51 Muscle Shoals, Alabama. The 7mm Weatherby has the same recoil as a .300 Winchester Magnum, and many shooters can't come to grips with it. Retained mass helps maintain momentum. But with laser rangefinders one can easily compensate for the slightly greater drop of the 7mm Rem. I just did a 7mm build too. JavaScript is disabled. Trustpilot. New member question. Why not back the 28 off and run h1000 or retumbo and cruise along at the same velocity? Instead, the Hornady-developed RCM case was used to produce the 6.5 PRC. You see a 7mag throated with 250 freebore and adg brass can do all of this. Creedmoor Sports $ 116.95 . Hodgdon reloading data for the 7mm WSM shows that the 140 grain Nosler Partition spitzer bullet can be driven to a MV of 2979 fps in front of 58.0 grains of H4350 powder. That was the 7x57mm re-branded for the non-metric British Rigby rifle. 7mm Rem. YMMV . What was your 28 Nosler load with 180s at 3080? bullet wins the wind deflection category. Kind of soured me on light bullet's. To comply with the new e-Privacy directive, we need to ask for your consent to set the cookies. https://westtexordnance.com/7mm-300-norma-improved/, https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/28-nosler-195-berger-re33-testing.159270/, Desert Tech SRS A2 Covert FDE w/ conversions, Desert Tech SRS A1 FDE RH 6.5x47L - Parted Out. The .28 Nosler of 2015 was their solution. Said barrels will also be throated long enough for seating such bullets above the powder reservoir. These claims are valid if the short magnum cartridges are fired in 24 inch barrels, the same length as the barrels of most 7mm Rem. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. Of course, this was an overreaction, but at the time millions were convinced the new 7mm was the do-all-end-all of deer/elk/moose and even bear hunting cartridges. LRHTB. This precision does not mean the 7mm PRC is a long range target round only. rifles. Buy Now. Both cartridges were designed to work through short action rifles. The 7mm PRC in center is the same overall length as the 7mm Rem Mag and achieves the same muzzle velocities, but does so in a fatter case with no belt. In 2001 Remington looked to the old .404 Jeffery case for its ultra-speedy 7mm. 195s topped out @ 2950 w/ N570 using a drop tube to fit powder, that primer pocket was loose after. runs at 2940 fps and the .280 AI runs at 2850 fps). His bolt-action rifle was chambered for the confusing .275 Rigby. Just FYI before going 7-330NM, check out Long Range Hunting, there is a real long thread on there about the 28 Nosler with the 195 Bergers, just google it. It only makes sense, case with 8gr less capacity out running the bigger case, it's because of pressure, and lots of it.